George Harrison, Corporate Suit, Odd Journey
Joshua Greene, a professor and filmmaker with grey hair, glasses and a great sense of humor, is the current resident Bhakti teacher at Jivamukti Yoga School. How he got to that point is a story that started at the Sorbonne, continued as he chanted mantra with George Harrison, and later as a corporate suit working for Cablevision. Along the way, he never lost his Bhakti roots. Lisa Dawn Angerame had the opportunity recently to talk with him about his amazing journey.
Lisa Dawn Angerame: Let’s start from the beginning. I understand you were studying at the Sorbonne during your college years and then you went to London to the Radha Krishna temple. What drew you there?
Joshua Greene: In 1969 the American Center in Paris became a disco on Saturday nights. The DJ was a Krishna follower. He played George Harrison’s “Hare Krishna Mantra” at every dance, and I asked him, “Why are you doing that?” He pointed to the dance floor and said, “It’s a spiritual song, and they get spiritual benefit dancing to it.” That was weird. In December I visited the Krishna temple in London. The temple people were wonderful, bright, funny, dedicated. I stayed.
LDA: Were you on a spiritual quest?
JG: Not that I was consciously aware of, but we’re all on a spiritual quest, whether we call it that or not. We’re inching our way toward greater self-awareness.
LDA: But there was a burning inside you.
JG: There certainly was in the beginning. These days, it feels more like cinders, like the fire might be losing its heat, and that concerns me. I don’t go to temples very often. Maybe that’s part of the problem. There’s an old joke. God says to the devil, “I have an idea. I’m going to call it religion.” The devil thinks and says to God, “Sounds great. Let me organize it for you.” As soon as something becomes institutionalized, it has to be financed, staffed, defended—I’m not cut out for that kind of duty. So living at a distance, something of the original fire is lost. I don’t want to lose that enthusiasm, but it takes work to keep it alive.
LDA: When and how did you meet Shrila Prabhupada?
JG: It wasn’t until a year after I had been living in the London temple that Prabhupada initiated me—by mail! I requested initiation by letter, and he accepted by return post. We met first in Paris, in 1972. I looked at him and wept. He stared at me, looked into me. He understood more about that moment than I did.
LDA: Did he give you your spiritual name, Yogesvara?
JG: That came in the initiation letter: Yogesvara Das, servant of Krishna, the Master of Yogic Powers. The “das” part (“servant of”) is important.
LDA: What was it like working with George Harrison?
JG: Inspiring, exciting, a teenage dream come true, and a rude awakening all at the same time. He had an awfully sharp mind. If you treated him like a real person, he would treat you the same. As soon as you got that glint in your eye—“Oh, I’m with George Harrison!”—he’d walk the other way. He refused to play that material role any more or permit others to behave that way around him. He had spiritual integrity. Imagine being with your idol, someone whose music helped shape your life, and having to put that aside and lift the interaction to a much more informed plane.
LDA: Did you live in his house?
JG: I spent time there. He came to the temple as well. So there were a number of extended periods when we’d talk or record or just sit and chant.
LDA: What prompted you to write the book Here Comes the Sun?
JG: I wrote the book feeling my debt to George Harrison for having encouraged me and having set an outstanding example. His life was, “This is who I am, like me or not.” He didn’t let anything comprise what he knew to be true, namely that we are immortal souls housed for the moment in temporary bodies, and that there is a personal truth out there whom the Vedic texts call Krishna, “the Most Beautiful.” Chant that name, “Krishna,” vibrate that transcendent sound, reawaken consciousness, and get back to where we once belonged. The book was a thank you—also a pretty neat way to get people to read about the Bhagavad Gita. Profound truths go down easier when they’re set to rock’n’roll.
LDA: I understand it was something like 13 years before you came back to the US. Were you a full fledged Hare Krishna, robes and everything?
JG: Card-carrying, dyed-in-the-wool, rootin’-tootin’, shaven-headed, drum-beatin’, cymbal-clashin’, saffron-robe-wearin’, mantra-chantin’ Krishna.
LDA: (Laughing.) Well, what made you come back?
JG: Sanity. Actually, it was a beautiful woman. There’s always a beautiful woman in these stories. God bless her, she was the first person to make me think maybe I wasn’t the Ugly Duckling. It didn’t last, but I’ll never forget her.
LDA: What was the transition back to the US like?
JG: Toughest thing I’ve ever had to do. Temple life had been my universe for 13 years. I came back, slept on my mother’s couch—at age 32—and went looking for a job. What skills could I offer a company? Fervent prayer? Sanskrit mantras? The word sociologist Emile Durkheim uses to describe that kind of being-out-of-place is anomie. It’s also called cognitive dissonance: not knowing where you are or how to act.
LDA: And then you went into corporate America and worked for a PR agency and Cablevision. How does a Hare Krishna become a suit?
JG: Keep your beads out of sight, for one. Don’t try to prove anything. Listen and learn. Then and only then if you have something to offer speak up. You also have to like yourself a lot. Otherwise, you get sucked into the game and hate yourself like so many in corporate life. Speak truth. Don’t hold back. But speak with compassion and from a heartfelt desire to help. If you can’t do that, if you can’t see work as a spiritual exercise, don’t go into corporate life. You’ll hate yourself.
LDA: So, you were a bhakta in a suit.
JG: Real bhaktas can wear suits. Not once in the twelve years that my teacher Prabhupada taught in the West did he ever say, “Chant Hare Krishna and to hell with everyone else.” Bhaktas are not recluses or salvationists. Historically there was a time when the spiritual experience was about me, my purification, my inner work, but that was a time when the world was not such a global community in desperate straits. A bigger part of personal progress today is about the work we do in the greater society to help others progress in their lives. You can wear anything to move that agenda forward.
LDA: What made you leave corporate America to make movies?
JG: Ego. Who doesn’t want to be in movies? Apart from that, movies are the dominant media influence. They shape opinion. Someday there will be films and television that deal with spirit on a profound level. I’d like to be part of that.
LDA: And then when did you start teaching the Bhagavad Gita?
JG: I started teaching my first week in the London temple in 1969. Instant immersion. Those guys knew what they were doing: get the young ones to speak. Formal teaching? I got my Masters in Religion and have been teaching at Hofstra University, Fordham University, Jivamukti Yoga School, teacher trainings and elsewhere for about seven years.
LDA: How would you describe your yoga practice?
JG: Very awkward. Historically, asanas were not a standard part of Bhakti. Historical records suggest that there was an effort to differentiate the Bhakti schools from the Advaita Vedanta schools, which favored jnana—knowledge—over devotion. For Vedantins, the body is something to transcend, to get out of, and physical yoga practice was part of that. Devotees value the body as their instrument of devotional service. Food, singing, dancing are integral to Bhakti. Arduous physical yoga didn’t have much place in that.
LDA: How does the yoga/Bhakti scene now compare to your early experiences as a student?
JG: Frankly, that distinction from earlier generations between yoga and Bhakti is not as relevant today. We see a coming together of the yoga culture and the devotional culture. That’s good news for everybody.
LDA: Last question. What is it like being the teacher now?
JG: It’s great fun, and as corny as it sounds I learn from the people who attend weekly Gita talks at Jivamukti. Our job as yogis—teachers and students alike—is to evolve a new vocabulary for taking millennial teachings into a global environment. That was never there before, in all of history. We’re in unchartered waters here, and it takes discussion, experiment, and a willingness to try new applications. It’s nice thinking you can play a small part in stimulating the discussion.